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	<title>Comments on: A Slap In The Face From The Guardian to Recruiters!</title>
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	<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734</link>
	<description>My Views and thoughts on the Recruitment industry</description>
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		<title>By: Merry Christmas from Recruitment Views</title>
		<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734/comment-page-1#comment-1473</link>
		<dc:creator>Merry Christmas from Recruitment Views</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 12:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recruitment-views.com/?p=734#comment-1473</guid>
		<description>[...] my first guest speaking role in Ireland for the National Recruitment Federation, which after my most controversial post for the year meant another opportunity as a guest speak at the Guardian, fame was beginning to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] my first guest speaking role in Ireland for the National Recruitment Federation, which after my most controversial post for the year meant another opportunity as a guest speak at the Guardian, fame was beginning to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: social media and recruitment</title>
		<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734/comment-page-1#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>social media and recruitment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recruitment-views.com/?p=734#comment-286</guid>
		<description>[...] In all honestly consistency is one of the hardest things about blogging, which happened to be one of the subjects I covered as one of the guest speakers at the Recruitment Society the other week. My presentation was on blogging and recruitment, which went well and I was pleased to be let into the Guardian&#8217;s new offices, considering my last article on Guardian Jobs&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In all honestly consistency is one of the hardest things about blogging, which happened to be one of the subjects I covered as one of the guest speakers at the Recruitment Society the other week. My presentation was on blogging and recruitment, which went well and I was pleased to be let into the Guardian&#8217;s new offices, considering my last article on Guardian Jobs&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fullstaff</title>
		<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734/comment-page-1#comment-293</link>
		<dc:creator>Fullstaff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recruitment-views.com/?p=734#comment-293</guid>
		<description>There are clearly some moral implications, and they&#039;re important. However, the most immediate response to this should surely be commercial.

The Guardian&#039;s activity is reprehensible because it&#039;s unexpected and hidden, not because it&#039;s fundamentally a terrible idea. They didn&#039;t give agencies a chance to decide whether to use their unusually parasitic jobboard, or have its service reflected in the ad price, as the information was unavailable and unusual.

Having paid a fair price in good faith for a jobboard service that does NOT send CVs anywhere, agencies&#039; commercial interests are harmed if that, in fact, happens. The Guardian should disclose this key fact at the price negotiation stage at least, and allow agencies to make their own choice. In some markets, as people have said above, the quality of service an agency offers means it makes little difference if the Guardian is punting a few CVs around. In others, they are damaging commercial interests behind their customers&#039; backs.

As for whether it&#039;s the the Guardian&#039;s journalism or agency ads that attracts candidates, it&#039;s clearly both. But I bet you the Guardian is charging a decent price on the basis of their site&#039;s contribution to the database, they should offset that price to recognise the agencies&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are clearly some moral implications, and they&#8217;re important. However, the most immediate response to this should surely be commercial.</p>
<p>The Guardian&#8217;s activity is reprehensible because it&#8217;s unexpected and hidden, not because it&#8217;s fundamentally a terrible idea. They didn&#8217;t give agencies a chance to decide whether to use their unusually parasitic jobboard, or have its service reflected in the ad price, as the information was unavailable and unusual.</p>
<p>Having paid a fair price in good faith for a jobboard service that does NOT send CVs anywhere, agencies&#8217; commercial interests are harmed if that, in fact, happens. The Guardian should disclose this key fact at the price negotiation stage at least, and allow agencies to make their own choice. In some markets, as people have said above, the quality of service an agency offers means it makes little difference if the Guardian is punting a few CVs around. In others, they are damaging commercial interests behind their customers&#8217; backs.</p>
<p>As for whether it&#8217;s the the Guardian&#8217;s journalism or agency ads that attracts candidates, it&#8217;s clearly both. But I bet you the Guardian is charging a decent price on the basis of their site&#8217;s contribution to the database, they should offset that price to recognise the agencies&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Benedict</title>
		<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734/comment-page-1#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator>Benedict</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recruitment-views.com/?p=734#comment-285</guid>
		<description>John

Sorry, but your argument seems flawed to me.

The premise of your displeasure seems to be that &quot;the database that we pay to attract candidates to&quot; is being taken advantage of by the Guardian. You further assert this by stating that you have &quot;paid to attract the candidate [to the site]&quot;.

Now corerct me if I&#039;m wrong, but the Guardian make themselves different to other job boards by being, first and foremost, a news site. They then attract that audience from the Guardian.co.uk site onto the GuardianJobs.co.uk site. To say then that you &quot;pay to attract candidates&quot; is somewhat misleading, as the Guardian attracts the candidates to the sitev ia its journalism, you just pay to attract them once they are on the job site, as does every other employer using the site.

You go on to say that &quot;This has implications for direct advertisers also. They may get a response from an ideal candidate only to find he or she may have alternative job opportunities presented to them also.&quot;
Well yes, but of course that is the nature of a job board surely? There is always more than one job being presented to a candidate, there is always competition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John</p>
<p>Sorry, but your argument seems flawed to me.</p>
<p>The premise of your displeasure seems to be that &#8220;the database that we pay to attract candidates to&#8221; is being taken advantage of by the Guardian. You further assert this by stating that you have &#8220;paid to attract the candidate [to the site]&#8220;.</p>
<p>Now corerct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but the Guardian make themselves different to other job boards by being, first and foremost, a news site. They then attract that audience from the Guardian.co.uk site onto the GuardianJobs.co.uk site. To say then that you &#8220;pay to attract candidates&#8221; is somewhat misleading, as the Guardian attracts the candidates to the sitev ia its journalism, you just pay to attract them once they are on the job site, as does every other employer using the site.</p>
<p>You go on to say that &#8220;This has implications for direct advertisers also. They may get a response from an ideal candidate only to find he or she may have alternative job opportunities presented to them also.&#8221;<br />
Well yes, but of course that is the nature of a job board surely? There is always more than one job being presented to a candidate, there is always competition.</p>
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		<title>By: Rowan Watkins</title>
		<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734/comment-page-1#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator>Rowan Watkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 08:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recruitment-views.com/?p=734#comment-292</guid>
		<description>This is most certainly the wrong thing for the Guardian to be doing. However, for clients to accept and purchase this service it implies they are not enamored  with the service of their current recruitment partner.

Recruitment agencies that have merely been placing ads, trawling job boards and then sending CVs over to their clients with no face to face meeting are likely to be in competition with the Guardian&#039;s service. And to be honest fairly so, they are adding little more value and so should be paid accordingly.

Recruitment agencies who not only source candidate but use their expertise and specialist tools to select the right candidates are likely to be unaffected as they are providing a service far and above that which can be offered by a job board sending CVs.  This is a recruitment consultants chance to add value and differentiate themselves from services such as the Guardian&#039;s. Anyone can read a CV and see who has worked for their competitors, this is not why companies engage with recruitment agencies. They want first of all to attract candidates they would not generally be able to reach and secondly for an expert to select which of these candidates will perform the best in their business using tools or expertise they do not have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is most certainly the wrong thing for the Guardian to be doing. However, for clients to accept and purchase this service it implies they are not enamored  with the service of their current recruitment partner.</p>
<p>Recruitment agencies that have merely been placing ads, trawling job boards and then sending CVs over to their clients with no face to face meeting are likely to be in competition with the Guardian&#8217;s service. And to be honest fairly so, they are adding little more value and so should be paid accordingly.</p>
<p>Recruitment agencies who not only source candidate but use their expertise and specialist tools to select the right candidates are likely to be unaffected as they are providing a service far and above that which can be offered by a job board sending CVs.  This is a recruitment consultants chance to add value and differentiate themselves from services such as the Guardian&#8217;s. Anyone can read a CV and see who has worked for their competitors, this is not why companies engage with recruitment agencies. They want first of all to attract candidates they would not generally be able to reach and secondly for an expert to select which of these candidates will perform the best in their business using tools or expertise they do not have.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Gold</title>
		<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734/comment-page-1#comment-291</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Gold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recruitment-views.com/?p=734#comment-291</guid>
		<description>Michael

You know what I mean by charging for CV&#039;s so let&#039;s not kid ourselves that agencies are all that great.  Of course there are some great agencies, I have worked in the industry for over 20 years, cut my teeth at the sharp end and was both good and successful.

I agree that you should avoid job boards if they do not provide any value but really can&#039;t see why anyone is so shocked by this latest situation. Adapt or die. Agencies will survive albeit fewer and smart new business models will arise. I know what I&#039;d be doing if I were an agency - but I&#039;m not. Good luck.

Peter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael</p>
<p>You know what I mean by charging for CV&#8217;s so let&#8217;s not kid ourselves that agencies are all that great.  Of course there are some great agencies, I have worked in the industry for over 20 years, cut my teeth at the sharp end and was both good and successful.</p>
<p>I agree that you should avoid job boards if they do not provide any value but really can&#8217;t see why anyone is so shocked by this latest situation. Adapt or die. Agencies will survive albeit fewer and smart new business models will arise. I know what I&#8217;d be doing if I were an agency &#8211; but I&#8217;m not. Good luck.</p>
<p>Peter</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Donovan</title>
		<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734/comment-page-1#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Donovan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recruitment-views.com/?p=734#comment-301</guid>
		<description>Peter, I do not know what kind of employment agencies you deal with but as far as I know no agencies charge their client for CV&#039;s, they charge for finding the right person for the job, and those agencies who do use CV databases have to PAY for them not like the Guardian who has us (Their Advertisers) pay for the CV generation. You are right about re- modelling our busienss perhaps we should not use jobs boards that compete with their advertisers! and do not tell them they are doing it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, I do not know what kind of employment agencies you deal with but as far as I know no agencies charge their client for CV&#8217;s, they charge for finding the right person for the job, and those agencies who do use CV databases have to PAY for them not like the Guardian who has us (Their Advertisers) pay for the CV generation. You are right about re- modelling our busienss perhaps we should not use jobs boards that compete with their advertisers! and do not tell them they are doing it</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Gold</title>
		<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734/comment-page-1#comment-300</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Gold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recruitment-views.com/?p=734#comment-300</guid>
		<description>I cannot believe you are complaining about this.  Agencies scavange amongst the CV databases that are filled by people who are attracted to many adverts that are placed by the employers who pay a damn site more for adverts than the agencies do.  And then charge employers for CV&#039;s.

I don&#039;t see the alleged Guardian approach to be unethical but they may have to review their position as they are possibly acting as an agent.  But rather than moan why not get off your box and do something about it.  Re-model your business so employers use you because you still provide value.  Job boards are running scared so what can you expect.  They were supposed to kill of agencies yet they never will so adapt and survive as the job boards are the ones that will struggle to survive; hence the changes they are making.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot believe you are complaining about this.  Agencies scavange amongst the CV databases that are filled by people who are attracted to many adverts that are placed by the employers who pay a damn site more for adverts than the agencies do.  And then charge employers for CV&#8217;s.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see the alleged Guardian approach to be unethical but they may have to review their position as they are possibly acting as an agent.  But rather than moan why not get off your box and do something about it.  Re-model your business so employers use you because you still provide value.  Job boards are running scared so what can you expect.  They were supposed to kill of agencies yet they never will so adapt and survive as the job boards are the ones that will struggle to survive; hence the changes they are making.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Donovan</title>
		<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734/comment-page-1#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Donovan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recruitment-views.com/?p=734#comment-299</guid>
		<description>I have just spoken to Simon Cresswell at the Guardian who assured me that his resourcing division team only approaches companies that are not advertising in the Guardian and proffering the CV&#039;s they have  from paying ads which must be as much a concern for direct advertisers as it is for us in consultancies. In any case as I said to him we go to great lengths to not disclose our clients in Guardian advertisements so how do they know they the companies they approach are not being advertised in the Guardian? No answer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just spoken to Simon Cresswell at the Guardian who assured me that his resourcing division team only approaches companies that are not advertising in the Guardian and proffering the CV&#8217;s they have  from paying ads which must be as much a concern for direct advertisers as it is for us in consultancies. In any case as I said to him we go to great lengths to not disclose our clients in Guardian advertisements so how do they know they the companies they approach are not being advertised in the Guardian? No answer!</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Shephard</title>
		<link>http://www.recruitment-views.com/a-slap-in-the-face-from-the-guardian-to-recruiters/734/comment-page-1#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Shephard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.recruitment-views.com/?p=734#comment-298</guid>
		<description>The service the Guardian is offering is not exactly search and select, they are not going out into a market and trying to find the best person for a role. This is speculating off the back of our paid-for response, and in addition they are not restricting this to one industry sector. The net result, I hope, will be that they will simply annoy a lot of our clients by pestering them with candidates regardless of whether there is a role to fill and or any exiting PSL agreements. Any idiot can simply pitch out candidates to random companies but because headhunting is an integral part of a quality recruitment service, this will probably fail. In the mean-time I am considering taking my business elsewhere, if we as an industry collectively use other advertising resources then the volume of vacancies will move response away from the Guardian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The service the Guardian is offering is not exactly search and select, they are not going out into a market and trying to find the best person for a role. This is speculating off the back of our paid-for response, and in addition they are not restricting this to one industry sector. The net result, I hope, will be that they will simply annoy a lot of our clients by pestering them with candidates regardless of whether there is a role to fill and or any exiting PSL agreements. Any idiot can simply pitch out candidates to random companies but because headhunting is an integral part of a quality recruitment service, this will probably fail. In the mean-time I am considering taking my business elsewhere, if we as an industry collectively use other advertising resources then the volume of vacancies will move response away from the Guardian.</p>
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